Nora says:

@ Comeagain—interesting you should bring up Turkey—Actually the Turkish economy was not doing well for years. Turkey only became the economic and political power house it is today in the last ten years under Erdogan. His whole political vision is to make Turkey a more Islamic country. He's gotten rid of many of the laws that were against Islam—such as the banning of the hijab in public instituitions. His wife is the first first lady in Turkey to wear the hijab. In fact you could say that be becoming more Islamic and returning to their religion the Turkish people have found success.

ComeAgain says:

HornId exactly why should other people be held hostage to someone elses beliefs? Somaliland citizens should have the choice and from what I gathered there wasnt a vote on this at all!

Imagine if in western nations you were not given the option of having an interest free account!

ComeAgain says:

I have read the history of Muslim spain. But dont think that non muslims had equal rights to muslims. What many historians do is just point out that Islamic spain was just better than most but lets face it it wasnt ideal, atleast compared to the equality/laws that we have now.

An Interesting book that woke me up is called An Illusion of Harmony:Science and Religion in Islam by Taner Edis take a look.

Even the science that my muslim teachers used to say for instance algebra was not invented by muslims but by Babylonians, indians and greeks and then perfected by rene descartes. Lets remember as rome fell the arabs came into contact with text from greeks and romans and translated them.

anyways i digress trust me when I say that when you look at the totality of human kinds laws and try to find ones that will lead to the majority of peoples happiness it is not islamiclaws but secular laws that win out. Proof is in the pudding.

Let me know if there is anything else you need

Nora says:

@ Comeagain

No it is Erodgan that is credited with Turkey's current boom and he is the anti-Ataturk. Turkey was nothing more than a poor country under secularist rule. Read any news paper or even Wikipedia. On wikipedia it clearly states that:

"In 2002, Erdoğan inherited a Turkish economy deep in recession due to the financial crisis during the coalition government under the leadership of Ecevit"

Erodgan's party is credited for making Turkey so successful. The man has transformed the country and many see him as a role model for Muslim leaders around the world. The whole basis of everything he does however is rooted in Islam and returning Turkey to being an Islamic state.

Another up and coming economic tiger is Indonesia an Islamic state.
A lot of Islamic countries escaped the current economic crisis because of their use of Islamic banking and many western banks and institutions are looking to them as examples. So, yes Islam is very relevant in todays society.

ComeAgain says:

Exactly the Europeans went crazy into Religion and not into science and secular law which is exactly where the Muslim world is headed. So technically you are heading towards the very thing that your running away from.

Islam is the problem along with hard line muslims. Any religion that cannot change with time is doomed to fail, especially if the societies it is in are moving ahead. Also, when Islam started to view science below religion is when they started to fail. Please look at the embryology in the quran it was ripped off from galen and mohammed even copied the mistakes of galen! But we are supposed to believe that this is the word of the creator. But you have people trying to pass off this info as science.

ComeAgain says:

Banking.

You ask the bank for 10,000 to buy a car. The car is in your name. You pay the bank the 10,000 back plus interest, it is called a loan.

You open a savings account, the bank pays you a dividend, it is called interest.

Islamic Banking:

You ask the bank for 10,000 to buy a car. The car is in the banks name (until fully repaid). You pay the bank the 10,000 back plus interest (the interest is called a 'gift' even though its mandatory)……………. it is not called a loan.

You open a savings account, the bank pays you a dividend (though its not obliged to)……….. it is called a gift.

The only difference is naming rhetoric and that Islamic banking is stacked in the bank's favour. If recent events haven't proven to you all banks are crooks you're beyond hope. If you have to deal with a bank, deal with the one the financial authorities have the most tightly reined in.