Africa
Somalia names team for talks with Somaliland
June 19, 2012 · 90 Comments
MOGADISHU — The transitional federal government of Somalia has officially announced its negotiation team for the upcoming talks with Somaliland.
The first round of direct talks between the two sides are due to kick off in London on Wednesday and each has designated a team for the first ever face-to-face dialogue.
President Sheikh Sharif Ahmed has entrusted the all important inaugural meeting with a small team of five core members–three ministerial officials and two members of Parliament.
Somalia’s negotiating team, headed by interior minister Abdisamad Mo’alin Mohamed, left Mogadishu for London Tuesday morning. Mr. Mohamed voiced optimism over his government’s engagement with Somaliland for the first time in two decades before he left on his trip.
“I am hoping the deliberations will produce a positive outcome for Somalia. The committee I am heading is ready to embark on a trip to London,” he told local press.
The British government is making an effort to open a window of opportunity for dialogue between Hargeisa and Mogadishu. A final communiqué issued during a conference on Somalia in London in February of this year called the two sides to clarify their relations.
This week’s gathering is expected to lay the groundwork for crucial negotiations in the near future to resolve key issues including border disputes, citizenship, partition, unity and other pressing topics.
The Somaliland side seeks full diplomatic recognition and the acceptance of Somalia as a sovereign nation. Somaliland minister of information Abdulrahman Yusuf Duale said on Thursday that divisions between Somaliland and Somalia was like “the sky and earth” — burying any hope for a unity.
Somalia views Somaliland as an integral part of a united and federal Somalia. They vowed to satisfy Somaliland on a path of reunification.
Somaliland temporarily joined into a never rectified union with Somalia in July 1960 to form the Somali Republic. The union collapsed after years of heavy fighting that left more than 50,000 people dead in Somaliland and millions displaced across the border in Ethiopia. Somaliland says if the union is reinstated another heavy war is imminent.
The team from Somalia includes, along with Mr. Mohamed, TFG ambassador to Djibouti, Abdi Hussein Gulwade, minister for education and culture, Ahmed Aideed Ibrahim, MP Hussein Hassan and MP Mohamed Hassan Adan.
Mogadishu has removed two ministers from the Puntland region from its list. Hargeisa protested their nomination saying such talks should take between Somaliland and Somalia as two nations not with a regional administration.
The British government is expected to invite key allies and regional powers to the preparatory meeting. The Somaliland negotiation officials left Berbera on Sunday for London (see UK facilitates first ever Somaliland-Somalia direct talks).
Somalilandpress
June 19, 2012
Follow @somalilandpressTags: Britain, deliberations, Dialogue, London, Somalia, Somaliland News, Talks
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NA NA NA NA HEY HEY HEY GOODBYE SOMALIA! DOES SPONGEBOB DANCE IN THE CORNER!
I am also naming my own team for talks with Mohamed Cheers. I am going to go through my list of ministers and MPs and I will find someone that says "cheers" a lot. I am also optimistic like Abdisamad. I am going to request that amal provides the venue for dialogue.
Cheers talk version 1.0
This Somaliland/Somalia talks are joke! No one is going to listen to a small Council nor someone who hides behind AMISOM tanks.
Amal please respond to kayse and let me know your good views.
Cheers.
Mohamed cheers,
This is my advice and guideline for the talks between Kayse and Mohamed cheers. Kayse before hand should drink caano geel to cool him down and put his whiplash away before coming to the talk. Mohamed cheers should welcome and greet Kayse with cheers and sit down with him to explain to him that Somaliland is de jure and non-negotiable and to hop back on board :)
Kayse might then wake up from his non-sense and realize that Somaliland is reality and not two sub clan council and it is here to stay :)
I will try to be present else the talk will fail lol just kidding
correction
* that Somaliland is 1960 de jure and non-negotiable
hahaha wad iga qoslisay wale. Those are some tough terms, I am walking out because you gave Mohamed Cheers a designer chair by Cheermani while you offered me Somali saali.
geel jires don't know how to sit on a chair that's why I offered the salli lol. But Muhamed cheers deserves to be seated in a designer tailor made chair because he is a real Somalilander unlike…
Maybe next time if you become a real lander like M.cheers, you too will be offered a designer chair this time with a camel logo lol
Amal why u giving Kayse a hard time he's a real northern lool oh and tell him not to forget his caday somali..
caday somali loll
maxa dacay dee we are trying to baptize him back into the fold lol and you are next hehe and all other lost children of SL.
But you are right I shouldn't be hard on him. Okay waxan u diyarinaya ganbad made out of animal skin and I will let him come with his caday somali and ushisa geela lakin biilu nala daca ilay geel jire wa qac ee.
"They vowed to satisfy Somaliland on a path of reunification"
So what carrot can TFG offer to Somaliland to persuade it toward the "path of reunification" ? Any ideas any one?
Even more interesting is what sticks the IC will use to get the two sides to do their bidding?
What's the point of talking about re-union? Somalis clearly know the answer to that.. :s
leilafan123 You got Busted!!!
Khaatumo Citizen, pardon?
Well, now, we have two nations holding talks (all the other regional players are out of the picture). It would be interesting to see what the tfg and its successor(after mandate expires in August 2012) come up with. I predict the tfg's opening gambit would be to try and persuade Somaliland to take part in the August 2012 efforts to form a constituent assembly in Somalia. A non-started. Somaliland already has an elected parliament and executive. Second, an attempt to drive a wedge between the different communities in Somaliland. That won't work either, because Somaliland is an exclusive democracy. Somalia is a two community show.
Finally, the usual appeal to "pan-Somalism", that won't wash either, because Somalis will always have cultural, social and economic ties, but never again, political ties.
Let Somaliland and Somalia live side-by-side as two brother nations. Let Somalia get its act together, then who know what the next 50 years may bring. Haddii Eebe yidhaahdo
Let us be realists, if both parties stick to their current positions i.e Union v Separation there is no point in talking as the two are mutually exclusive. In my opinion we (Somaliland) have more to loose, and therefore we have to asses things and manoeuvre to get the best possible outcome. This means we cannot insist on the current status-qou. So with that said I pose to the Somalilanders here this question:
What do you think if any is a reasonable concession to make to the TFG?
The fact of the matter is that Somaliland although sensitive to the IC's calls and needs, we do not need them (the IC) as much as Somalia does, its very existence is based on the whims of the IC. At the same time, Somaliland does need some sort of quasi political solution for its economic growth to take off. In terms of us making concessions to the TFG, why should we? A crucial rule about politics is that the one with the upper hand never makes concessions. Somaliland has the upper hand in that we are already politically matured (in temrs of our infant democracy) whereas the political situation in the South is much to haphazard. Also, the TFG want reunification, to them Federalism is their biggest concession to Somaliland. How laughable is this? They will never respect the fact that we already have our own political institutions, army, flag and national identity. We Somalis are forever economically, culturally and religiouslly connected, but never again politically. In the 1960 union it was us who came unconditionally and forfeitted our nationhood and future to be part of the Greater Somalia dream, needless to say we all know what happened to then. Yet this time the TFG and the Souther npeoples fail to understand that it is them that should be making concessions to us unconditionally just like we did to them some 50 odd years ago. These negotiations will fail and once they do its in Somaliland's interests because they will show the IC how politically mature we are and how willing we are to negotiate with the mandate of the people. They say fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me. Somaliland should never rejoin the Union a second time to make the same mistakes, only for our grandchildren to have to build our cities back from the rubbles once again.
pls next time write something That makes sense & relavent because This is not at all.
@ Kid Carlito
Best reply I've read.
@ AntoninusPius 55p
You said ‘’In my opinion we (Somaliland) have more to loose’’ it seems you already made up your mind, I thought you were looking honest ideas
@Abdi.R
Yes I am interested in honest opinions/ideas, I have opinions of the situation which may I add, are not beliefs and are subject to change with the realisation of better ideas. As for Somaliland having more to loose, it is simply my reading of the situation, as I see it Somaliland has achieved more compared to a Somalia which is recovering from a dark age and therefore if things go wrong it stands to loose more whilst for Somalia things can only get better.
@AntoninusPius
There is no guarantee things will get better in Somalia or things will get worse and Somaliland.
Given the track record of Somaliland of the last 20 years it is my humble view things will get better
As far as Somalia let's hope things will get better.
@Abdi.R
True only Allah knows how things will turnout, but it won't hurt us to prepare for the worst whilst hopping for the best!
I would say:
1.Make an apology for the wrongs of the past ( this has to come from the elders of the nation)
2.Ask forgiveness.
3.Truth and reconciliation where war criminals put to justice by Somalis.
4.Offer them some kind of composition.
5.Offer them to run the country for the next 21 years.
You do that and miracle will happen
I just Abdi.R a thump up. But i wanted a thump down. Do you think that we are stupid enough to go back in that place (i am keeping clean) again? Hell no. THAT WILL NEVER NEVER NEVER HAPPEN.
@ Abdi. R
I would ask:
Is apology expected?
Have we not forgiven?
Have you ever started telling the truth to each other or they reconciling? If there was justice by Somalis what are AMISON and foriegn troops doing in your forced peace?
If you are forever seeking International assistance, can you afford compensantion?
If we run your country you have everything to gain such as ready police, teachers, doctors, judges, good governing adminstrators.
We have no place for your criminals in our jails.
All things are possible and it would be fantastic if the people of Somaliland can offer ready-made government to run the country.
To start off with……….. responsability needs to be taken for all the atrocities against somaliland people during the war
2. Need to hand over all war criminals involved
3. acknowledge past mistakes and also accept that Somaliland is a seperate state!!
4. ONLY a fool mistakes a twice so can't see somaliland ever joining them again
you guys are missing The whole point here,TFG & s/land know The out come of The talk”IC TOLD BOTH OF THEM SOMALIA WILL BE INTACT PUT SELF AUTONOMY & SHARING EVERYTHING FROM GOVERNING TO RESOURCES”.
What Happened to kayse?
Why is He been So cocky?
wallah I just lost All My Respect For Him.
In Reality how Many Presidents were ambushed?? and how Manny Prime ministers Were SO close to Death. I’m not Denying the fact that their Decisions are influenced by The international Community. I think that you have to have Some patience as well as Respect for the TFG, Yes they are Corrupt and what did you expect From a Goverment that is a Prop For the IC. There is Corruption in every goverment but it gets Less and less. I know of Many People that Could Run for Presidency but are not good leaders and do not want to risk there own life for their Greedy intresets.
I thought were a Mad man, Non-Comformative,Ruthless, But you just lost ALL my Respect for Dissing the President. You killed it.
I find these talks and the next few months very worrying for Somaliland, because it will have to face its greatest challenge to date—proving its legitimate right to exist with a possibly functional Somalia as its neighbor.
As for the outcome of these talks with Somalia—it won’t be Somaliland or Somalia who will be deciding the outcome but the international community. The IC has always gotten both countries to do just as they please—it won’t be any different now, even when it's a question of Somaliland's sovereignty —after all they're both African countries–lets not forget— and all you need to do is threaten them with cuts to funding and they’ll roll over.
Nora, with due respect, I fully disagree. The IC might have the upper hand on the failed affairs
of Somalia without a functioning Govts. since 1991, and it's true that Somalia will be administered
under the roadmap treaty signatories beyond August 2012 after which the Somalia's Sovereignty would
take u-turn different political dynamics run by foreign powers, whereas in stark contrast de jure
Somaliland has been functioning a success story since 1991 todate. There's nothing to suggest
that the IC would need to threaten Somaliland with cuts to funding for roll over. Nora, I think you are
not being honest about the strong position of Somaliland vs the Somalia's delicate stance.
Cheers
Sorry I spoke general—I meant to say that Silanyo’s government rolls over when threats to funding are made. An example of this was the London Somalia conference. Riyaale and Egals governments never caved into pressure such pressure.
Again. I wouldn't say that Silaanyo's Govt rolls over and it's out of the question that such
threats to funding would be forthcoming. Riyaale's policies were pro Djibouti/Paris and still is.
Egals policies were indirectly pro Somalia but the Somaliland people didn't allow him a freelance
hand and he finally ended in confusion. Silaanyo's Govt is more bold, open and pragmatic and
above all shares joint decisions across the countries institutions and while open to all key
govts is more pro the UK. I don't understand what you mean by caved into pressure such pressure?
The LCS for the first time since 1991 gave Somaliland a lee way to talk independently with
her counterpart Somalia and I see that was a success bargain for Somaliland to have gained a
clear direction headway to continue towards full recognition.
Cheers.
@Nora
So basically you’re saying you’re going to be sold out by our government. Well, I suppose you are right in that the only bargaining tool African's have when dealing with the IC is their dignity, which has always been purchasable at a reasonable price.
Do you suggest dusting off the old Somalia flag and freshening up on Somalia’s national anthem. “Soomaaliyeey toosoo Toosoo …” what were the rest of the lyrics again????
Too bad—I just finished constructing a new Villa, was hoping to retire there someday—I hope this time when the Somalia government bomb Hargeisa they'll have the curtsey to not bomb my home—I spent my lifesaving on building it!
*you're ==we're
runing away reality will not solve any problem.if The talks go well Than The whole game will change,it will not be two country put one nation one goverment put also semi-autonomous states.
no need to dust off old flag you can keep your flag remember some functioning regiones have also own flags.
remember soomaliyee toosoo toosoo The guy who created This song he was your uncle.
Let us be realists, if both parties stick to their current positions i.e Union v Separation there is no point in talking as the two are mutually exclusive. In my opinion we (Somaliland) have more to loose, and therefore we have to asses things and manoeuvre to get the best possible outcome. This means we cannot insist on the current status-qou. So with that said I pose to the Somalilanders here this question:
What do you think if any is a reasonable concession to make to the TFG?
@AntoninusPius
Totally agree it is time to be realistic. Somaliland has also been a victim over the past 21 years with little attnetion paid to it and its success. It had not been able to development during a period were the worlds growth has been unprecedented. The status-quo cannot contuine.
So you ask what we think. Well Somalia is not going to cave in and agree to our terms. Therefore a interim sloution should be agreed that will allow Somaliland to continue operating as is within its clearly defined boarders and fully control over its resources and at the end of this period similar to South Sudan a world recognised referendum to take place (independence or contiune with interim agreement). Let me know your thoughts on this and what the interim arrangement may look like?
Ask other to resitrain their abusive comments and provide usefuly commnetary.
My opinion is this: First we should redefine our goal from "Separate and hope it somehow solves all our ills" because this may and probably will not be the case, becoming a sovereign nation will not guarantee success. Our goal should be to have a functioning and just state where we all live in dignity and in control of our destiny.
At the same time I fear, although there is good progress, the politics of Somalia may not reach a mature state in the near future and a Somaliland which although more mature albeit with some problems may get its achievements undone.
So in conclusion I agree with you on the point of an "interim period" where Somaliland keeps sovereignty over its territory and gets access to international institutions and investment, followed by a referendum.
Anto.
i Think This question will be suitable to ambassador kayse Atleast he will give honest answer.
@AntoninusPius
And so we're back to the 1950's—then too we made all the concessions, and look what it got us. I don’t know about you but the prospect of facing a firing squad just because I’m Iss@q and night bombings makes me adamantly opposed to concessions. But then we might not have to face the firing squads, they may be lenient and just serve us life sentences, with only the threat of death.
I knew May 18th should have been treated as a more somber occasion—all the partying has made us forget why we declared independence in the first place.
@Jama
You assume that concessions = firing squads, yes we made big mistakes in 1960, but is it not possible we can both change?
Let me ask you about the elephant in the room, you mention "Isaaq" of which the overwhelming majority subscribe to the Somaliland idea, how are they (we) to address the desires others in particular those of the "Harti" who(although I cannot say for certain how many but I guess a significant number) see their future in a unified Somalia?
Do you not think i is not all black and white and without some concessions from both sides the future of all those who live in Somaliland can become precarious?
@AntoninusPius
Why not say Dhulb@hante and W@rsangeli? By saying H@rti you include M@jeerteen who have no claim to any land in Somaliland. Besides I thought the M@jeerteens were the elephant in the room when it comes to these talks—weren’t they behind much of the killings of Iss@q in the first place. I resist that you have lumped them together since they are many patriotic Dhulb@hante and W@rsangeli Somalilanders—even some that fought with the SNM. To these people Somaliland is greater than tribal loyalty.
Has Somalia changed since 1991 when we left—Yes—they’ve become more violent, impoverished, and hungrier—things can only be worse this time around if we rejoin them.
@Jama
Yes you are right I should have said Dhulbahate and Warsangeli…. I also agree Somaliland should be greater than the clans that make…
kkk mr jama it’s time to see your psychiatrist.get The facts as long as you having This sort of delusion nothing will go forward for your region.
The so-called representatives of Somalia must be told that we have a democratic, peaceful and prosperous country and then asked this simple question: What are the Somaliland people going to benefit from a reunion with Somalia?
I am sure their answer will be; Terrorism, piracy and warlord- fiefdoms. END OF DISCUSSION!
Acually it’s other way around s/land region will benefit more,will come out from isolation dark caves unemployment will go down more business will go in & so forth.
Ali Ali,
HaaHaaa are you talking about Somalia offering employment to Somalilanders and in which sector, may be the famine sector, warlord ism sector or worst the terrorism or piracy sectors? Just be realistic for once.
dhugtema.
well rest of somalia have massive population compare s/land region see for yourself how They change kenya.
I don’t know how do you understand economy 101 put more people means exchange of goods back & forth That also creates jops & income.
@AntoninusPius
All sarcasm aside however—I think that before we can think of making concessions, we should ask ourselves will be better off on our own or as part of Somalia. What exactly are they offering us if we rejoin them?
I personally believe these talks are very premature considering the fact that the elections haven’t occurred yet in Somalia, and the country isn’t fully stable yet. All their offering us right now is famine, debt, war and the TFG. Once they have become democratic and more functional then we maybe we should consider talking to them.
"we should ask ourselves will be better off on our own or as part of Somalia"
True and that is the big question getting it right= success getting it wrong = bad things!
I think there are advantages in concessions if we get access to the world but there is also the disadvantages of the midfield that is the politics of Somalia.
By giving concessions we give them ever advantage—besides we were the ones wronged—so why should we make concessions
Concessions are important in negotiations you give a small thing to get a bigger thing in return
@AntoninusPius
The biggest problem we have isn't even with Somalia but with Puntland—it's Puntlanders have always wanted to dominant and control all the Somali people. If they were out of the equation, I have no doubt that Somalia and Somaliland would see eye to eye in no time.
But the is no dealing with Puntlanders—their blood thirsty and have a score to settle with us—after all we were the ones that kicked them out of power in 1991. They were also the ones that were behind the massive kills of Iss@q in the 1980s. Why do we have such a problem with Oromos in Somaliland because Siad Barre's government brought them. They wanted to ethically cleanse the Iss@q and replace them with Oromos.
This is nothing put fear mongering with baseless lies no one is buying This story anymore it’s out dated.
probable your Those individuals who benefit wants to keep Their own regional citizen as a hostage using This sort of fear mongering.
let’s go back little bit history here,They were a lot of is**q military officers barre regime 1978-1987 who also commited Atrocities in Galkaiyo in 1980 under The order of barre regime shooting civilians in The back & Throwing in The wells.
forget about Puntland They have own stable state not interested ruling put sharing in equal terms.
I do love revisionist history! It helped make every tyrant a saint, and the victim the monster.
it seems today in somalia They are more tyrant Than saint including silanyo committing crimes in The north also in hargeisa.
@Jama
Although Puntland is a greater strategic threat to Somaliland than Somalia (South Central), that is politics we both want the same territory albeit with different basis for claiming it, and I for one think claiming territory on clan lines is a bad idea, but who is to say which side is just when the people who live in that land have not decisively made up their mind one way or another, personally I think they are better with Somaliland but it is their call.
As for past we did not kick the Puntlanders out of power they where rebels like us fighting against Siad, who also committed atrocities against them.
@AntoninusPius
As for the land dispute—as someone from the “disputed area”, and who can claim Dhulb@hante, W@rsangeli and Iss@q ancestry, I can affirm that the majority of the people in this area want to remain a part of Somaliland—it is only a minority that wants to leave and that is why they are taking such drastic actions because it’s the only way they will be noticed.
@Jama
Interesting I hope you are right.. the most important thing for Somaliland is that all its people speak with one voice and something is done to address the grievances of those with misgivings.
Let is not fabricate & manipulate Thinks here, citizens in These regions sool-sanaag-ceyn should have referendum with The presence of IC whether to remain mainland somalia or s/land region.
foreget about majority or minority The answer will be clear.
Jama
Bravo and well said bro, What you mentioned here are what our people are forgetting so quickly… ma umuul baa ilawsiis doowa.. excuse my somali writting am not good at it.
puntlanders are actually the instigators of all somali misfortunates, All somalis should wake up and know this if they want to live in peace,
They are a rotten tomato in a bag full of tomatoes therefore what do you think the rest are gonna be? Adios . see now how they will start to attack me for this reality comment i made here kkkkkk.
naah better Things to do.
Well said. Statehood is good but without development its meaningless. What Somaliland should concertrate on is economic and human capital development.
As a compromise to entering into this interim arrangement (which could pose problems as you correctly pointed out because Somalia’s politic is not yet fully developed and who is to say warlords and clan fighting might re-erupt) the donors should arrange for a seperate and significant development fund. They will be acknowleding that we will be given up our dearly chresihed independence (although temporary) to suit them and AU who can only think of Somalia through Mogadishu. Also that it pays dividends to be the good kid in the region. We should spend this time rapdily developing our economy and creating jobs.
I would like to hear from you and anyone else what a possible interim agreement may compromise off?
@AntoninusPius
Becoming a Sovereign nation will not solve all our problems you are right but it will give us one very important thing –which hundreds of thousands of Somalilanders died for—security and peace.
How do you justify all those innocent lives lost, all those heroic men and women who died for the democracy, and peace we enjoy today —by simply saying—“Uhmm….Well thanks for all you fought for but we’ve decided to rejoin with Somalia because it was better for our pocket books in the end”.
An apology will not make things better for them or their families—their children who have grown up as orphans. Nor will it make it better for the kids growing up in Somaliland who are still losing limbs due to landmines. Nothing Somalia can offer—short of our Sovereignty will—it is the only way they can make amends.
Somaliland is so much more than an experience in independence—sink or swim we owe it to those who have died to make Somaliland a sovereign nation.
Good to know patriotism has not been completely eroded by greed.
@Nora
You certainly have a well argued point and many Somalilanders agree with you, but allow me to present you with my point of view.
You state
"How do you justify all those innocent lives lost, all those heroic men and women who died for the democracy"
And that is a good argument, hover I belief the needs of living outweigh the needs of the dead even those who sacrificed their life for us.
Furthermore I belief that we have to do whatever is best for us! that doesn't mean we sell our hard earned democracy out, but we take a pragmatic view. Once we do that whilst avoiding a simplistic outlook we must then ask what options do we have and what is best for us and why?
Landers dont listen to these guys talking about some sort of interim period BS what makes you think the TFG or anything that comes out of Somalia is going to leave us alone? This interim period will only give them time to regroup and come back to bite us in the a r se not to mention turn us away from our development and institution building trying to help them get their act together.
Hell to the NO! Its over union was NEVER ratified, TWO referendums already happened! Somalia can take a fly ing f rack!
Antoninus is a fa q @@sh in disguise talk about giving up when we are so close! I wonder if you would be running the other way when the fa @ @ s h were trying to kill us off too.
cooled down & TAKE YOU MEDICATION.
nothing is close it’s all in your mind so cut This garbage self Autonomy will be The solution or you will keep wondering in The bush for indefinite.
@ComeAgain
Try presenting a rational argument, you never know I may agree with it, insulting me achieves nothing.
Somaliland may be poor, under developed and so on. but it has one thing that has eluded Somalia for over two decades; peace, progess and prosperity. Only a fool would throw all that away. "Midho gacanta kuugu jira looma tuuro kuwo geed saaran". Somalilanders do not want to make decisions for the people of Mogadishu, Kismanyo, Baydhabo, Galkacyo, Beled-Weyne, Garoowe or Bosaaso. Somaliland wants to stand on its own two feet within the borders of 1960. If Somalia cannot accept that, than its war. Simple as that, if talking does work, then fighting may bring about a resolution.
guys and girls everything is decided already the IC has spoken. this two groups are there to discuss the terms of the details. UK and USA THINK IT IS GOOD for them to see united Somalia funnily enough.
so don't flatter yourselfs you have nothing to decide. two important decisions remain
for somaliland: how to break this news to average somalilander
Somalia: how to do concession that is beneficial to both temporary capital relocation is considered but practically impossible since all the buildings and institutions are in mogadishu and we have to build everything in hargeisa which is economical not viable. next maybe the two big clans to vacate prime minister or president so somalilanders can have a retry for 12 years? army to be controlled and based in somaliland so they are not scared of the south? somali financial institutions in hargeisa like national bank ? possibly we will see
wanlaweyn you have good points here do you think it is possible ?
We don't want you or your Mogadishu what is so hard to believe about that
@EUROchild
this is for grownups OK? i clearly stated it is not about what you want or what i want. but the international community is deciding here. the UK and Turkey is present.
@ Abdi.R
i think it is possible to give the president post to somaliland candidate if the new parliament agree beforehand they can choose from several candidates from somaliland in august.
as for hargeisa, since it is more stable and less populated than mogadishu it can be the base of more important things like printing money national bank, manufacturing ( past factory , cigarette factory etc etc) airspace control and all sport activities as well as training proper somali army to protect its people and the country. i think the era of everything in Mogadishu is finished now. that was dictators way to control and manipulate the population.
TFG iz just a government in name, they cant even go to the loo without the military protection that AMISOM forces. Puntland is the ruler of somalia, the main player in somalia, TFG would quickly collapse without puntland. any agreement sign by the tribal state and the weak TFG will would be null and void.
SSC is the property of Puntland not the tribal state or the hawiya morons.
Ps Puntland Armed Forces recaptured Tukaraq, the tribal militia fled towards to Laas Caanood.
get lost puntland is no match 4 somaliland we can wipe you mj thugs out get it through ur thick skull the daro*d will never rule over other somalis ever again the mighty isa*q is too strong yeah
the only reason ex- Puntland paid Ina cambashe to capture tukaraq was to distract kh@@tumo capturing lascanod.. its clear that puntland gave lascanod away for the past 5 yrs they were in tukaraq camp and never raised a finger to recapture lascanod. now kh@@tumo was created they blocked airports, ports and so on…. tukoraq will be recaptured again and just u know we also own half of garowe.. no more hiding behind Hartism. sourth getting peace now is gona be just like old ways.. mareexan, dhulb@h@nte and Ogadeen..
@AntoninusPius
I don’t think we can see eye to eye, because you are looking at this from a purely monetary prospective. At the end of the day all that matters to you is the bottom line—will Somaliland be wealthier as a part of Somalia.
It isn’t a matter of “the needs of the living outweighing those of the dead” but respecting and honoring what the dead fought for, and paying back the debt we owe them, we maintaining our sovereignty.
They died selflessly fighting for justice, freedom and liberty so that the younger generations won’t have to. Now you want us to throw everything away to indulge in a selfish greedy surrender (because to concede would be nothing more than to surrender) and rejoin with Somalia condemning future generations to injustice and oppression. This seems rather illogical.
What you have to understand is Somaliland is as much an ideology as it is a nation to every patriotic Somalilander. It symbolizes all our hopes of dreams and aspirations for all future generations and you want us to kill that hope.
You tell em Nora! Cant believe some folks just wanna turn their backs for money, which leads me to believe that perhaps this guy isnt really who he says he is meaning a Lander at all. The roman name should have been a dead give away.
Rubbish, they wasting their time. Lets be honest its all about qabil. H@wiya have their land d@arood have their land and its only fair to give is@q their land back.
Now is my turn,so listen Faqa666sh. This talk will go in stages. Stage one : Somalia should come to the table to talk to an equal and sovereign country. Without that talks are non starter. stage two: let us talk about the crimes Somalia committed in Somaliland. Let us talk about How Somalia will compensate Somaliland and its people for all the loss be it material or otherwise. Also, Somalia should take the responsibility to repay all the foreign debit accumulated by the faqa666sh. Apprehension of all the faqa666sh criminals to be tried for crimes against humanity. Paying half of all the assistance monies delivered in the name of Somalia to somaliland immediately and in cash. Dividing all the frozen assets for Somalia especially funds being held by Turkey in half. Stage 3: Stopping immediately the funding and welcoming terrorists form Somaliland in the south. How is that for starters. You want negotiation well let’s go.
The international communtiy doesn't want to recognize Somaliland. I suspect one of the reasons for this is because this would just mean that the rich countries will then end up having to give Somaliland aid money through the World Bank and IMF. The only reason why they recognize South Sudan is because they have oil and resources and the western world can exploit them. Somaliland, sadly, is a desert with nothing to offer to the world. The international community loses if it recognizes Somaliland.
If Somaliland becomes a country, it will be one more poor African country to feed. The rich western nations don't benefit from an independent Somaliland. The opposite will occur. They will lose. The citizens of western nations don't want to feed another hopeless African country and governments are listening.
Somaliland should not be basing her entire argument on "recognition" and "sovereignty" but it should build its argument around real issues that real Somalis in Somaliland care about.
In my opinion, which I feel would also have the support of the IC, the Somaliland argument should build a case against Somalia on issues such as past abuses (genocide), foreign debt, power sharing, seat of government and financial account.
The IC should be convinced that, which they already know, Somalia's past abuses including the ethnic cleansing against the Issak should not go unpunished. The IC should acknowledge it and should make reference for future use just in case the two sides go to war again–thus its past genocide against the Issak should put a black dot already against its book and steps should be taken to prevent it from happening again.
The criminals Somalia continues to harbor such as General Morgan should also be on top of the list, Somaliland should demand, in order to move forward, the past must be put to rest and continuing to protect criminals shows Somalia has other motives.
If Somalia and Somaliland reunify, the two should keep separate financial books and it should be Somalia footing the current foreign debt since Somaliland did not receive a penny under Mohamed Siad Bare nor in the last 21 years. Thus its a debt accumulated by the south and it should be their responsibility to pay for it.
Then finally we should provide a detail report based on power-sharing, seat of government, divisions, decentralization visions, etc.
If Somalia does not meet any of the preconditions which are realistic, then the international community would see Somalia as the one not cooperating and who knows, they might decide to recognize Somaliland.
Just throwing recognition on the table without exploring other venues of diplomacy and international law is not a strong argument and it seems like Somaliland is throwing a tantrum. But the reality is it has bigger case than Somalia and it should press it, it should build its argument on baby steps and build it to something big.
I know, if we tell the international community, we want the criminals apprehended many will agree with it and we put forward solutions to prevent it in the future.
Somaliland has to build its case that it is the victim of the union and if it was to reunify, it has these requests; I know Somalia will not meet many so the IC might actually put its weight behind Somaliland.
I thought this talk was north vs south whether they should seperate or stay together.
but it seems to me its just north vs north they could do so much better under a tree somewhere in north somalia the only person is missing is faroole and his gangs.
The 80's & the 90's is and always will be a gloomy part of somali history. Lets be honest Isaaq you guy have blood on your hands too. Infact all somalis have blood on their hands. So lets not pull a victim card. Its what the world powers wants and they want to see great Somalia. I think somaliland knows what the right choice is.
I s @@q dont have blood on their hands, it was self defense we had the whole Somali Army carpet bombing our cities and killing off the the civilians that were trying to get away, what did you expect us to do stand still for the shooting?
Again dont worry about Somaliland worry about yourselves, we are not interested!
ComeAggain,
SNM did what they had to do DEFEND their country and people. They had fighters who were fearless, and focused and leaders who were strategic. God bless SNM.