World
Somalia and Somaliland preparatory talks to open in London today
June 20, 2012 · 33 Comments
Relics of war: A Russian tank belonging to Somalia’s armed forces lays near Berbera, Somaliland. (Eric Lafforgue photo)
LONDON — The British government is set to inaugurate a preparatory meeting between feuding neighbours Somaliland and Somalia later today in London.
The EU nation hopes this two-day direct deliberation will find enough common ground to press on with future talks so as to ensure the two clarified their relations.
The two parties have not had any face-to-face dialogue for the past two decades after a temporary union collapsed in 1991.
The Somaliland party says that they want a similar deal to Sudan and South Sudan where the two sides agreed to their split and statehood. They argue that their country existed twenty years without them and there was no need for them to go back to conflict and marginalization.
A referendum held in Somaliland in 2001 was almost unanimous, over 97% opted for independence in the ballot box. Hargeisa insists that it is willing to conduct another one should the international community request one.
Hargeisa said it was ready to shape talks for cooperation with its southern neighbour should they accept the fact that union is long gone. The foreign minister of Somaliland said that their priority in these negotiations is to present a case for his territory’s full international recognition.
Meanwhile the team from Somalia claims that Somaliland as an integral part of a united Somalia but one which will administer its own affairs under a proposed federal system. According to sources close to Somalia’s president Sheikh Sharif Ahmed, Mogadishu wants a similar union to that of United Arab Emirates with Hargeisa. After these two-day preparatory talks are concluded, Mr. Ahmed is expected to meet Somaliland President Ahmed Silanyo in the UAE, which promised to fund a similar system to her own.
Both designated teams of five core members have arrived for the meeting, which will kick off behind closed doors in the British capital. Representatives from Norway, the African Union, European Union, and Italy will be present for this inaugural dialogue.
Historical Context
The Somaliland Republic became a British protectorate in 1884. Two decades later it was ruled under the British India control between 1905 and 1960 until it gained its independence, on 26 June 1960.
Similarly, Somalia became under the Italian rule in 1889 and it lasted until in 1941
when the British military defeated Italy. Following the formation of the United Nations, the former Italian territory was placed under the UN trusteeship and was to gain independence in 1970.
After Somaliland’s independence, it requested that the UN mandate be terminated and the two Somali territories be allowed to form their own union under the Somali Republic banner. Following the merger on July 1960, the majority of political and administrative power was allocated to Somalia, leaving Somaliland to regret its decision.
The thirty year old marriage collapsed in 1991 when Somalia’s last dictator Mohamed Siad Bare was defeated by armed rebels. The conflict lasted almost a decade and is estimated to have killed hundreds of thousands people and rendered close to a million homeless and displaced in Ethiopia.
It also consumed Somalia’s central government and the state has not recovered ever since.
Somalilandpress
June 20, 2012
——
Somalilandpress is running a live update below as the event unfolds.
UPDATE
[liveblog]
Follow @somalilandpressTags: AU, Britain, Dialogue, EU, Italy, Norway, Somalia, Somaliland news, Talks
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NA NA NA NA, NA NA NA NA, HEY HEY HEY GOOOOOOOOODBYYYYYYYYYYE SOMALIA!
SING IT WITH ME LANDERS! NA NA NA NA, NA NA NA NA. HEY HEY HEY GOOOOOOOOOODBYEEEEEE AND GOOD RIDDANCE TO BAD RUBBISH!
Grow up man or woman whatever you are. If somaliland wants to be free Ameen stop acting like a child
Somaliaqueen, You must be Hawiye , Dir people are definitely our dear supporters.
Yes i am and i would suppror everyone who wants to leave in peace n knows Deen n Dhaqan. :)
We the people of Somalia welcomes you back to the union it was just a matter of time before you returned to mother somalia hehe
Not likely my friend….not likely at all
You are Dahhrood man acting like Xamar boy. You are not welcome in Xamar or Hargeisa
Hehehe
whats is wrong with you salaxley ? is Xamar your father property ?
I am going to declare my own Emirate in parts of Hargeisa just like Sharjah and Dubai, we will have a fence as border. I just hope to strike oil like Abu Dhabi and not be on handouts like Ajman. Who thinks I won't get lucky with my own Emirate? I will then proclaim myself as Sheikh Kayse el Geeljire el Caano Geel.
UAE system is flawed and is largely injustice, just look at the gap between Abu Dhabi and Ajman. What a silly system form of government.
That will never work with Somalis considering the fact that UAE is a formation of monarchies where as Somalis pledge no alliance to fake Kings. Will Sheikh Sharif find the first Hawiye dynasty? I doubt it. All Somalis will invade him for sure.
Its just flawed system thats worse than Pirate boss Farole's idea.
Kayse, let's take things step by step. Let's deal with what goes first face to face contact
of Silaanyo of de jure Hargeisa Somaliland Republic delegation and the TFG Mogadiscio
Somalia all inclusive tripartite treaty signatories delegation..(negotiators on both sides).
Depending on the outcome, we should be able to have more clear understanding on
how to proceed from thereon. Taking matters at stage by stage levels should well be
the dictating factor strategy forward. Eventually, subsequent follow up meetings should be held in Djibouti,Borama, Istanbul, or London,Paris,instead of UAE or GCC. Most probably London might dominate as a leading venue. Kayse dude slow down with your flying colors that wont go far enough.
Cheers.
I am going to stop referring Silanyo's illegal regime as "Garadagland" or "Garadag" as of today because the elders, intellectuals and heavy weight Sultans from such region/town are now with me.
Their supreme Sultan Arab Abdi Ali recently held an all inclusive meeting in the town of Oog and in one voice, the garadag community in Sarar and western Sanaag, urged Silanyo to step down and end his corruption, nepotism and dark sinisters. They accused him of destabilizing northern Somalia.
They pin-pointed that the 10 men currently held by Silanyo for the food mismanagement case is fabricated and unfounded. He said there was no evidence what so ever and just like King Burmadow, the men are held illegally.
This is the reality and village by village, town by town, northern Somalis are coming out together more than ever to condemn Silanyo and his twisted regime.
His days are quickly coming to an end like Hosni Mubarak.
I advise the TFG to withdraw all talks with Silanyo's regime because he does not represent us any more. Things can change in matter of days or even hours——we will come to Mogadishu to form an all inclusive government for Somalia.
A small council in parts of Hargeisa can not hold this nation hostage when super powers of their days could not subdue the Somali aspiration.
We want our share of the cake and we want to expand the Somali rule throughout the Somali peninsula for all Somalis.
Silanyo has no argument and civil wars have shaped almost all the leading nations of our time. An English man in London, who is keeping an Irish, Scot, and Walsh has no say in Somalia's affairs.
The TFG must pullout and wait till Silanyo is gone and the climate is settled for our dialogue.
——–
Suldaan iyo cuqaal reer Garadag ah oo cadaalad daro ku dhaliilay Madaxweyne Silaanyo
Shalay bishu ahayd 17/06/2012 , waxaa ka dhacay shir aad loo soo abaabulay Magaalada OOG ee Gobolka Saraar Shir socday 2 Casho oo ay isugu yimaadeen Beelaha Dega Sanaag Galbeed iyo Saraar Togan, Waxaa aad looga Hadlay Xukunkii ku dhacay Godoomiyaha hore ee Maroodijeex Axmed Xamarji iyo Agaasime Axmed Cilmi, Lataliyihii Madaxweyne xigeenka Cismaan Yare iyo Ganacsade Axmed Timacada.
Waxa uu Suldaan Carab Cabdi Cali ku tilmaamay Cadaalad Daro aad u weyn oo uu Sameysay Xukuumada Silaanyo, sidoo kale waxa uu yidhi Boqor Cismaan waxa uu ku xidhan yahay Baadil, Waxa uu madaxweynuhu ku eedeeyey in uu Cay u xidhan yahay , Waxa uu Suldaanku yidhi Anigu Ku odhan maayo Xafiiskaaga wax ka shaqeeya Alshabaab, laakiin inta kale ee uu yidhi waan la qabaa ee marka aan Hargeysa Imaado I xidh.
Waxa kale oo Suldaanku ku eedeeyey Silaanyo in uu ku guuldaraystay in uu Dalka Hago, una soo jeediyey in uu is casilo hadaanu wadanka hagi karayn.
It is indisputable that the negotiation between Somali land and Somalia will end in failure because the two
too far apart in their positions. Somalia does not recognize Somali land as a sovereign state but part of the disintegrated Somalia and that some solution is needed to get it back to the fold. They also don't buy Somali land's claims that the South tried to cleanse the people of Somali land from their land and that destruction, lawlessness and hardships are shared by all Somalis. Such a mindset is what annoys the people of Somali land who see it as a kind of despisement and an outright denial of the crimes the South perpetrated againt them. Somali land believes that she is and has been a sovereign state and that the unratifed union it made with Somalia will no longer bind after the atrocities meted out by the dictatorial military regime of Siyad Barre. Therefore, If the negotation fails, we will not exclude from our analysis of the situation that Somaliland will defend its freedom by military force.
Military force does not work in the modern world of technology. If Somalia tried to use force it will not only further isolate northern Somalis but also many of them will end up where Charles Taylor is at today. The world isn't the world where Saddam, Siad Bare, Idi Amin and others did as they wished. Today all it takes is one tweet, one facebook and one photo.
If Somalia did try to use force even people like myself would take arms against them. We want a Somalia thats for all Somalia not a Somalia where the south think they more powerful or have more right to Somalia. Such will be disastrous and no man would allow the south to slay their family in the north.
kayse.
I don’t Thing so what happen somali peninsula in 1988 & 1990 will ever Accur agian today The world is totaly different.
somalis realize now force will not work did not work before & it’s not gone work again,arm embargo in somalia will remain next 30 years it’s good Thing in away cuz somalis would not start putchering each other.
downside is without national army will be vulnerable all sorts of Threats from neighbouring countries, put today cutting Edge technology such as media no nation will invade other easily even switzerland does not have national army it’s of the most prosperous country in EU.
The author is misleading The readers here said referendum held in 2001 it was unanimous,The question is who participated That referendum? majority nothern somalis did not take part.
if This issue keep dragging one Thing is for sure genuine referendum will be held nothern somalia presence of IC,after That Those who want to go separate every body will wellcome put sorry can’t claim or take with you a land & people which does not belong to you.
@M. Khalid
Part of the problem is Southerners don't seem to take the Somalilanders very seriously, Some think we have over reacted! and "Somali's have all suffered", which is what a lot of their politicians keep repeating but the fact remains no other Somalis where systematically massacred and marginalised by the state like Somalilanders, whilst they abused each other by their own hands. I expect at the very least a full and meaningful apology should be given before the next set of talks.
Furthermore Somaliland will not be forced militarily, well because Somalia has no capacity for the that, the question is what the international community will do to persuade Somaliland to concede some things…
AntoninusPius,
Well said brother. It's really sad more than two decades Somalia failed to acknowledge and feel any remorse for their mistakes and they were only busy criticizing and harboring hate against us whilst their house was not in order. They tell us that we enjoy their demise when I remember we made so many fund raising events for Somalia and was organized by many landers. They tell us stop winging all Somalis suffered when they inflicted the suffering on themselves and they belittle the genocide and now they tell us to come back to Mogadishu we will treat you better, cheap.
Its sad and the funny thing is I used to like the idea of all Somalis under one banner, I used to imagine what united Somaliweyn could do and if a powerful Somaliweyn was possible and I had my own little ideas for the so-called Somaliweyn dream but Somaliweyn dream turn up to be a curse instead of a dream because of Somalis. Somalis are so insincere, they don't care about union, they don't care about Somali reconciliation, they don't care about Somalinimo, all they care about is 'how can a sub dir become a country?' full of xaasid, hate and jealousy. And I say watch us become a country. We don't want complicated Somalia who could not toos for more than two decades.
I'm not generalizing all but there are only few who are actually honest and genuine
Somaliland is a Nation formed by its people, NOT Silanyo or Riyale. It's here to stay forever. This is people wishes not any politician wishes.
For those of you who think Somaliland will fold to exist, you guys keep on day dreaming.
bye bye Somalia!!!!!
The author could be right in his prophecy about the Turkish invisible hand in the Somali politics, but what is not validating his article is the fact that undersigned himself as a future presidetial candidate for Somali representing People Party Somalia, in my view , I think that candidate has no idea how politics especially diplomacy works, he is absolutely naive by alienating Turkey to show Jigoism or extreme patriotism to the Somalis and also to gain trust and favour from the West. isn't he aware that Turkey is a Nato member and a country that is considered to be western regardless of the national faith. I respect people's opions, but I thought that this was a cheap at Turkey. please mr doctor be aware that everyone can be a politician or learn it but not eveyone is fit for taking the lead and certainly politics is an area where may be more than accademic skills are needed. Good luck by the way.
pigs are more likely to fly than somaliland reuniting so my message to somalia is:
INDEPENDENCE OR DEATH
somalia will never wake up from its coma until somaliland is recognized FACT
let's not get excited people, this talk is mainly about reuniting somalia, nothing else
lets not forget those who had the referendum were only Iss@@qs not people in SSC regions
I am glad that somaliland region is talking to Somalia's Federal Government which is something the somaliland region has refused for two decades ,and after 21 years of unsuccessful attempt to gain a international recognition somaliland region has come to conclusion that the only alternative that left for somaliland is being of Federal System
@Kayse
somaliland today is illegally occupying harti territories, soz plz Can you tell me the best solution without going to war?
As I have mentioned before a good solution would be a 10-year Peace and Equality Treaty (PET) in which Somaliland will retain the following
* maintain its own currency, central bank and monetary and fiscal policies
* maintain its own military, demand the removal of the 1992 UN arms embargo, so that S/Land can modernise its military and armed forces.
* Respect S/Land rights to issue its own passports to its citizens.
Somaliland should also request under this 10-year Peace and Equality Treaty that
* Somalia will respect Somaliland sovereignty as a equal state which will both have a joint capital city for the north, Hargeisa and the south, Mogadishu.
* Somalia will respect the foreign policy interest of Somaliland and respect S/Land right in allowing any foreign government, whether it would be China, Russia or the USA to use Berbera deep-sea port facility and military base.
* Somalia will respect Somaliland mineral/resources law and only Somaliland will issue legal rights for exploration/extraction in S/Land.
After the 10-year Peace and Equality Treaty (PET) Somalia should have matured as a democratic state, to the level of Somaliland and Somaliland would have economically developed. Somalia should than respect the rights of the people of Somaliland in a UN-backed referendum, similar to the 2001 referendum in Somaliland.
For over 21 years! Somaliland have also suffered from the problems of south-central Somalia due to lack of investment and access to international finance.
good idea but make it 5 years 10 is too long somaliland alone should not be subject to 1992 embargo so it can develop its military but i doubt somalia will be peaceful for the next 100 years
daldaal Darood are scattered all over the place how can they become country unless they become united under Somaliweyn banner with other somalis lol
As a Somalilander who really believe in Somaliland and its potential independence on the way. The current preparatory meeting between two teams is an important one as to pave the way for separation. As it looks this meeting will give each team a set of rules including to respect the border and view each other as two countries.
Somaliland has the upper hand on this meeting and it will lead a fully independency which will take time. All Somalialnd should remain patient while political activities are taking place in order to get rid of naggers.
Long live Somaliland and we will never surrender! As we worked hard to reach this point!
Unity is the must, SL welcome to the table negotiate is welcome but will never happen separation, Somalia is one country and always will be one. SL north Somalia have opportunity to negotiate to make deal with south power sharing half and half take this chance maybe you will not have this opportunity when south progress development and get full peace so now is your opportunity.
Viva Somalia Republic
bring on what???? another useless war among somalis? astaghfirullah thats not what i meant. what i mean is harti should stay union with Somalia should Somaliland choose to separate.
Breaking News:
today's talks centered on security, piracy,Aid,human rights .fighting terrorism and good governance.
trust me there was nothing about separation or Unity. this Shows this meeting is only in the interest of the IC and this two have no clue what they are doing.
There was no legal union between Somaliland and Somali Italia. You cannot deny the reality.
In July 1, 1960 the supposedly union between Somaliland and Somali Italia has never been ratified as agreed by the two separate legislatives of Somaliland and Somali Italia and then be presented before the united legislative as stipulated in the act of union document put forward by separate legislatives, but in reality only Somaliland legislative ratified its document while Somali Italian legislative failed to do so. At the stroke of midnight July 1st 1960 when Somalia Italian territory gained their independence, without due process the unlawful combined new parliament in the absence of agreed upon and subsequently ratified Act of Union document elected Aden Abdulla Osman as the new president of the republic. In essence, the Act of Union was not legally adopted in Somali Italia territory; as such in legality no union was entered by the two countries and consequently nonbinding. According to widely available records, a new Act of Union was enacted in January, 31st 1961 retrospectively.