Opinions
An Open letter to Ambassador Augustine
April 28, 2012 · 80 Comments
I write this letter as a Somaliland citizen who values International rules and regulations in the community of nations and also as an African brother of the small nation of Somaliland which you must be made aware and to which you are morally bound to give a fair hearing and judicious consideration.
First of all, I have to extol your tireless effort in bringing lasting peace to Somalia nevertheless it’s important to know that all previous 17 or 18 peace conferences held to effect reconciliation and establish credible government for Somalia since 1991, including the Garowe conference have miserably failed. It’s also worth mentioning that many political analyst and commentators believe that London conference will be the same. The most important underlying reason for their failure is ignoring Somaliland’s de facto existence and independence from Somalia. The problem of Somalia should have been viewed from the beginning as being in two parts. A) The succession of Somaliland and B) the conflict in Somalia.
I am sure that you are made aware of Somaliland’s statehood by Somaliland leaders in many different occasions but I believe it’s my responsibility to give you brief history about Somaliland.
What is relevant and deserve attention here is the fact that Somaliland was not a newly formed geo-political entity. Indeed, it has a long history as a country with its own political and geographic identity. In the 19th century, it came under suzerainty of the Ottoman Empire and then from 1884 until June 1960 it was administered by the United Kingdom as a protectorate in the basis of treaties freely negotiated between clan Somali leaders and the British.
On June 26, 1960, Great Britain granted Independence to the protectorate, officially ending 80 years of colonial rule. Some 38 nations officially recognized Somaliland’s independence including Great Britain and Egypt. Somaliland existed with its own recognized borders for five days. The now defunct Somali Republic was founded in 1960 by the union of the British Protectorate Somaliland and the former UN Trust territory under Italian Administration. That union was to have been the start of the process of unifying the five segments of the Somali Nation into what we have lovely termed “Greater Somalia”. This once cherished aspiration of all the Somali people has now atrophied by the attrition of external opposition and oppression of callous domestic dictatorship.
That burning and once inspiring aspiration to unite a nation had intoxicated a newly independent nation and in its neophite years of sovereign existence, divorced its budding diplomacy from the constrains of logic and from the balanced traditions of moderation. Only mindful of the undeniable justice of our cause, we plunged head on into a simultaneous conflict with Ethiopia, Kenya and France. We have not even spared brief reflection for the combined international weight of three prestigious octogenarians, Emperor Haile Sellassie, President Jomo Kenyatta and Charles De Gaulle, who were respectively ruling the three countries we have taken on. We went forward with insouciant unconcern and defied cynical world that had long exchanged its principles for political expediency and its believes for power and patronage. Of course we have lost and to hoot were consigned to the unrelenting shackles of international ostracism.
Today, neither that political entity nor the constitutional basis for that union exists. Political developments within the region have led to the abandonment of the concept of a Greater Somalia and the political and constitutional basis of the 1960 union was shattered in every respect when General Siyad Bare seized power by military Coup d’etat in 1969, scraped the constitution, established a communist dictatorship and subjected the population of Somaliland to reign of terror that lasted more than 20 years.
After experiencing 31 years of harsh oppressive measures in which they have been treated as as a second class citizens in their own land by the dictatorship government of Mohamed Siyaad Bare, Somaliland finally reclaimed its independence in Burao conference which all clans of Somaliland gathered and agreed to abrogate the un ratified “Act of Union” of 1960, and further declared independence from Somalia.
Somaliland succeeded to establish a fully functioning democratic government by successfully overcoming many challenges including demobilization, reconciliation of clans and establishing government structure and also holding referendum. Somaliland has also successfully held quite number of democratic elections which international community declared free and fair elections.
Somaliland fulfills the broad criteria of statehood under the Montevideo on the Rights and Duties of States, defined by the following parameters: a permanent population; a defined territory; a government and the capacity to enter in to relations with other states.
Mr. Ambassador, as you know London conference was the first conference that Somaliland participated in the last 20 years. During London conference, our president has been given an opportunity to speak there and share with the international community Somaliland’s experience in institution and peace building. At the end of the London conference, International community has acknowledged the importance of having talks between Somaliland and TFG, Somalia by adding the communiqué that it’s imperative that Somaliland hold talks with TFG of Somalia. Our president, Mr. Ahmed Silanyo has appointed five member technical committee to lay the ground work for the talks with the Transitional Federal Government in Somalia. Unfortunately, The TFG undermined the talks following their inclusion of Ministers origin from Somaliland in their technical committee. This has caused Somaliland’s refusal to hold talks with TFG, Somalia.
Mr. Ambassador, It’s very clear that TFG government has violated the clause in the London conference Communiqué. I hope that you will be able to pass on the international community especially United Nations Security Council that Somaliland fulfilled its criteria while TFG failed. I also believe that Somaliland will not be participating the Turkey conference for Somalis since no one respected the outcome of London conference. Somaliland people are not willing to engage Somali peace conferences again.
Mr. Ambassador, its perhaps great irony that United Nations previous missions including UNOSOM failed miserably because they tried to destabilize Somaliland. It was also an irony of immense proportions that those who were appointed and entrusted with the task of helping Somalia to find itself and stand on its feet engaged in the opposite task of destabilizing and destroying the only peace in Somaliland.
A man of your Excellency’s stature and experience should not turn blind eye the facts on the ground in Somaliland.
Somaliland will never accept anything less than full recognition; any arrangement attempted to be made regarding less than full recognition will result war between Somaliland and Somalia and the consequences will engulf the whole region with common tragedy.
Therefore, we appeal to your Excellency to assist in Somaliland in getting its denied rights in the United Nations and also to facilitate us the long due recognition that would save us from returning to the humiliating servitude of new colonialism, in the company of our poor and unfortunate former compatriots, whom we hope to aid and assist as a separate sovereign state.
Long life to Somaliland
Mohamed Abdilahi Duale
Email: moduale@hotmail.co.uk
Hargeisa, Somaliland
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International community respect the sovereignty and territorial integrity of Somali Republic. One tribe can't be a country, these who advocating for separation are only one tribe and that will not work majority voice rule.
Long live Somalia Democratic Republic.
@xarago.
It’s not first time writing a letter of These sort The secessionist tried last 20 years with dead end.why people could not understand mr Augustine he’s employee of UN he gets his orders from UN so “DON’T SHOOT THE MASSENGER”.as we see today nothern somalia majority of The people want be part of somalia put run Their own affairs independently as a nothernes,to verify This should be cencus with presence of international community to Avoid blood path,if The secessionist want’s to pursue Their tribel state let Them have it & ask recognition UN.
najiib, you must be kidding me. Majority? Tell me what percentage of the population of Somaliland, you think you are?!!! And let have big laugh here!
@Gobaad.
Do you mean population of s/land or nothern somalia? it’s totally different figures These two,The whole population nothern somalia is 3.2 million,in s/land alone it’s population is 720,000,see african regional cencus.
I think you're either a minor who born or grown up as a refugee in Western countries otherwise your brain works the other way round. Over a million people live in Hargeisa alone, over five hundred thousand people in Burao, over three hundred thousand live Borama let alone other inhabitants of Berbera Erigavo Lasanod and gabiley. So use your common sense boy!
You did not get The point or The picture.hergeisa,burao,berbera,people inhabited These cities are mix people not only isaq clanos,forget about borame,arigavo,lasanod not many live in These areas.when people hear s/land definitely it’s isaq clan state so This figure 720,000 are isaq clan,only way can be settle This is proper census which it’s on The way from UN.
You did not get The point or The picture.hergeisa,burao,berbera,people inhabited These cities are mix people not only is@q clanos,forget about borame,arigavo,lasanod not many live in These areas.when people hear s/land definitely it’s is@q clan state so This figure 720,000 are is@q clan,only way can be settle This is proper census which it’s on The way from UN.
najiib, kiddo you certainly don't have any acknowledge about Somaliland and it show by the garbage you are writing. You definitely have no clue. Thus, it useless to even consider to debating with you at this point. Go and educate yourself and come back later enough knowledge or information. I rest my case.
@najiib.
lool your right…The truth hurts.
He who denies the existence of Somaliland is only one tribe and you know who you are, every other Somalis from Southern tips to middle Somali to as far north as Zeila support the self-determination of Somaliland people 100%. You can cry loud and say anything you and your tribe wants, but Somaliland is here to stay forever!
unlikely only one tribe opposes This terroriest secessionist Three other tribes live in The north also do.hijacking people at Their will selling lies fortunately world not listening.
Xarago, International community are sick and tired of Somalia. If I were you, I would crawl in a dark hole in shame and never come out. Stop wailing and heckling to annoy Somalilanders out of envy and do what we have done. Learn from the Republic of Somaliland's good governance and leadership. That is what the International community wants you to do. Get your acts together and stop crying after Somaliland. We have long gone and there is no turning back. Not in a million years, get to it and stop stalking Somalilanders.
There's no need to send this open letter to Amb. A.Mahiga(Unpos). for he's aware of everything.
Besides, the unique political position of Somaliland is not limited to the UN envoy. The Somaliland
Govt is not only dealing with the UN but has a clear mandate roadmap different than the rest of all
inclusive Somalia roadmaps 1+2 Signatories and subsequent LCS recommendations.
Wild open letters of this kind normally do not serve any good results in my view.
Cheers.
I see no problem reminding the world what Somaliland stands for. I stand shoulder in shoulder with the author.
ITS CRAZY HOW YOU WANT TO BE A NATION A .THERE IS NO FREEDOM OF SPEECH, I KNOW THIS BECAUSE MY UNCLE IS A REPORTER AND HE GOT ARRESTED AND TORTURED FOR WRITING AN WHICH CRITICISED THE AUTHORITIES B. SOMALILAND IS CLAN BASED IM FROM SOOL AREA AND WE (SSC) WANT TO BE PART OF SOMALI REPUBLIC. INSHALLAH HOPE SOMALIA UNITES !!!!!
You say 'we' yet you are fully aware that your view on joining Somalia is that of a minority in those areas and more so in the rest of Somaliland. How can you expect the majority to take you serious.
Those with your radical ideas seem to be willing to attack peace loving neighbours in order to expand their land. I think in dreaming so much about Somalia you seem to have accepted some of their morally repugnant behaviour.
Yes, the Somaliland government should deal with these reporters in a different way but those calling themselves reporters need to learn about the ethical code of journalism and stop inciting hatred among brotherly groups.
ssc is in somaliland, somaliland WILL be recognized and the borders the colonialists drew in africa must be maintained even if it splits up tribes/clans/ethnic groups
i know its harsh but its fair so dnt isolate yourself and join us or else
Writing open letters to individuals like A. Mahiga didn't help much to our cause. In my personal point of view, I would suggest that we should from now on take different direction and immediately initiate what the Iran and N. Korean have been doing. I'm sure the IC will rush to us then we would easily tell them what we want . I believe it's time to change and try different avenues.
iam just lucky that i nform you what i …….. I don´t really care if you delete my comment or not…….because i am very aware of your unfairness. Thanks.
make it short next time.. i dont have time to read all this calacal lool
Primitive peoples and static civilizations
In primitive societies, people tend to see the world in a dichotomy of “evil” and “good”, black and white (with no shades of grey in between), or us versus them orientation. In those societies, progress and learning from experiences do not happen and they lead their lives in a fashion similar to previous generations thus they stay backward. For instance for the separatists in northern Somalia, everyone must desire and accept to have an independent country called Somaliland (sic). Any Somali who does not support the separation of northern Somalia from the rest of the country is our enemy. If one opposes the agenda of the separatists and does not see the merit of dismembering Somalia, they are labelled as hateful evil people who deserve to be coerced by force to accept that or if that is not possible, they must be eliminated by one way or another. For them, the situation is not much different from fighting in camel wells; the mighty must win and loot the camels of the vanquished. In fact that is how things were in Somalia since time immemorial and still are. Everyone must file behind the tribe whose members surpass the rest in number. What a shame!
The author of this opinion piece does not want to address the very important questions that have to be answered; does everyone in northern Somalia want separation? Why is there a need to divide Somali people? Is there any options to be explored other than division of the country? Why can’t we talk to each other and settle our differences as one people instead of always appealing to foreign parties such as the international community, Agostine Mahiga or the U.K. The writer of this article gives us only one choice – the world must recognize an entity called Somaliland as an independent country and no other option or enough information. People like this author who relentlessly promote the destruction of Somalia as the world knows it will do everything possible to reach their goal; they will submit their argument as if all the people of northern Somalia were collectively seeking to secede from Somalia while many regions want to be part of a united Somalia. They will beg and beseech anyone and everyone including people like Agostine Mahiga to help them found a country that is controlled by one clan. They will claim the TFG is destabilizing a peaceful northern Somalia, while the reality is that the fighting in that region has never stopped. Kalshaale, Maygaagle and Semaal were not created by TFG.
Only in the world of savages and children, are problems seen in the simplistic approach of two-value orientation. Roughly speaking, for folks like this author, the world is divided into two types of things that are neatly divided in the middle; those things that frustrate our desires and stop us from achieving objectives whether they are misguided ones or not and those that may gratify us. Simply, their argument boils down to “we are the good guys and the rest are bad and evil. Therefore, good must triumph and evil must be vanquished”. Nonesense.
absolute trash you are talking a majority of each somaliland clan support independence as they know it's better than resuscitating a failed union that was dominated by the italian side (particularly the marehan clan) so keep wishing somaliland goes down the path of destruction but history tells us we always overcome our enemies at the end thank god
ps im not isaaq im gadabursi n proud somalilander ALLAH U AKBAR
@ Abdiwahab,
You are samaroon :) and from Borama the birth place of Somaliland. Some naughty and silly khathumo seeg are trying to drag good and hardcore Somalilanders from awdal into their nonsense of uniting with Walawaynia. Tell them bro that Somalilanders are one and don't want to join backward haters. Viva hargeisa, viva Borama, Viva Somaliland.
OR MAY BE SECOND CLASS CITIZEN.
@Allemagan.
Your right mate i could write here more but you said all,let Them have a home work for This.
Reamnants of F@q@sh are frozen in time, holding on to an idea of "phantom-limb". An illusion that the limb still exists in their mind after it was cut-off 20 years in the making!!
We are not dismembering Somalia, you did that when you decided to treat Somalilanders as a second class citizens although Somalilanders were the cream of the corps and more educated than the mediocres of the south. We only reclaimed our God given rights and we are determined to keep it closer to our hearts, there is no turning back. So move on guys and stop your political bullying, stalking, wailing, crying, and heckling Somalilanders. It will never pay, you are only waiting your time. So, concentrate on your shortcomings, and try to resuscitate your lifeless country …. the worst failed state in th world and leave Somaliland out of your problems.
Good Job, Mr. Mohamed Abdilahi Duale and keep up the good work!
Dear Allemagan,
It seems you have no respect for the wishes of majority Somalilanders. Somaliland had united in their own terms with somalila in 1960's then a few years later it occurred to us, we, (somalilanders and Somalis) may look the same, claimed to believe in the same religion but we have different mindsets in terms of power sharing and how to govern.
We, as Somalilanders made an effort several occasions to exhibit our dissatisfaction to Somalis but they did not seem to care. As a result we fought so hard and finally prevailed to reach our objectives. Somalilanders committed certain goals to rebuild their born again nation as they should and flawlessly did so.
Now, your false desire of wanted a reunion between Somaliland and Somalia
is too little too late.
Osman Qaal
Dear karash,
Khatumo is an integral part of Somaliland not a breakfast on a plate, no group or individual can claim it as theirs. Same way as I can't claim Hargeisa or Buhodle. I'd love be able to own a city , town or even a tiny township anywhere in this planet. I'm a greedy guy i don't like to share anything with anybody.
By knowing the obstacles I don't waste my time wanted it.
This is not the 1st time that you and I had a conversion on a public domain, you sound a fairly intelligent person with mixed emotions, you shouldn't never ever negotiate out of fear but you rather better of if you never fear to negotiate, remember that line by JFK. I wasn't even born when he said that, however, I used it numerous times in negotiations. Khatumo is yours as well as mine. I probably would never be in Khatumo during my lifetime. I'm in love with it though because it's a part of my beloved Somaliland. Thus, If your heart is in Somalia go for it. Better yet, use your brain potentials at the polls in Somaliland…
osman Qaal
OSMAN5.YOUR GOOD SALES PERSON PUT I AM SORRY WHAT YOUR SELLING IS FAKE & UNACCEPTABLE TO MY FELLOW CITIZENS IN KHAATUMO,KHAATUMO & SSC IT’S INDEPENDENT STATE INFACT WE HAD ADDMIN IN 1921 IT’S JUST REFERBUSHING OLD ADDMINISTRATION NOTHING NEW,TO MY ADVICE CONCENTRATE YOUR OWN ENCLAVE.
karash, who is Khaatumo anyways? They a few disgruntled remnants of Siyad Barre's Regime who cannot phatom the development and progress in Somaliland while the majority of people from Sool are proud Somalilanders. Listen harash, I said it before and will say it again: anybody who is not happy to be a proud Somalilander should take their makeshift home or Bull-caws and leave. You certainly cannot move the spot your makeshift was standing on, but you can move yourself and your Bull-caws and get the hell out because the land belongs to Somalilanders.
… disgruntled remnants of Siyad Barre's Regime who cannot fathom, that is.
Gobaad,
I believe Khatumo is a township somewhere in the Eastern regions of Somaliland, either in Sool or Sanaag….My knowledge in that regard is limited thus I could be wrong.
Osman Qaal
osman5, I believe it is some in Sool, but I just want to discredit him and throw him off!
Gobaad,
OK, gotcha!
Khaatumo is not a town in the eastern region , the grandmother of Ali Khalif Galayd was called KHATUMO Alle naxariistii jano ha ka waraabiyo. Markuu haystay warshadii sigaarka ee Somliya labada nooc ee sigaarka ahaa ee Galaydh iyo Ubax, Galaydh waa magaca awoowgii Ubaxna waa magaca xaaskiisa.
karash,
I'm not selling a thing. I'm not even in the sales department of where I work.
I just want you to get a grip on the reality. Time is money, don't waste it..
Osman Qaal
I heard the grandmother of Ali Khalif Galayd was called KHATUMO.
@separatist & secessionist doomed club.
To reply some of your silly nonsense questions,The name khatumo it come from taleex in 1921 it was not created yesterday & it’s unique name not like s/land which is colonial name.to explian you more about it khamuto it all started when elder people in These regions sool-sanaag-ceyn get gathered in 1921 to stablish The great darawish forces to fight agianest british while you guys were servants & butlers for Them.
One day They all sat under one big tree which still located in taleex today to discuss how to defeat The british,one of The Elder statesman stand up & said today is KHATUMO day becuase we are fighting This devil invaders in This case your masters british,of course under leadership of great warrior abdulah hassan,This is where The name KHAMUTO started or come from.
Well Those who Think or keep repeating you can’t live here if don’t like This small enclave s/land That is rabush belony at every corner,This is our four fathers land & got given The british could not bush us out let alone delusion tribe.
Karash,
There’re known items that can provoke a war such as to possess more land, to conquer, to gain access for recourses which all boil down a greed.
Let me dissect each item on its own,
A) If Somaliland had wish more land it’d wage ware on Puntland when it was weaker and more vulnerable than it’s today,
B) No in the history of Somaliland recorded, anyone ever envisioned to conquer other fellow Somalilander citizens. We never understood the beauty of free labor.
C) no viable resources, Sanaag Sool and Ein are the most under developed regions than any other regions in Somaliland;
They need more help than they can offer. The majority of the citizens in those areas are masters of their own destructions because they’re prone to choose guns over pens.
We’re in 21st century; you must be aligned with what the majority dictates. It’s never too late for a fresh beginning.
The other point you made about the Mad Muller.
Mohamad A. Hassan was an uneducated man, he probably had good intentions but his approach was very primitive, he could of have had negotiated with the Brits under certain conditions in his own terms due to the support and resources he initially scooped up from his people, instead he declared a war against the British army which was outclassed his small group of untrained nomads (Darwishes).. A great commander picks/chooses his own battles not by false ambition and pipe-dreaming but by well thought out plans and strategies so he can foresee an undisputed victory on his side..
M.A. Hassan and his group endured a huge loss and humiliation, conversely, It’d been logged in the victory columns for the Brits. There’s no point of bragging about a war that you initiated it but did not win it. A prime example of that is that Germans don’t brag about WW2 because they lost. They’re ashamed to talk about it. It wasn’t their fault but a bad leader led them to war..
Osman Qaal
correction….KHATUMO.
karash, is that what your father or grandfather told you? Bull! About the so-called … great warrior Abdula Hassan was a terrorist, a murderer and a religious fanatic like the group called Alshabaab.
@secessionist doomed club.
A)wagin war on Puntland That will be nice it’s end of your small tribel inclave,These guys have enough manpower and resources to defend They self’s & attack if needed”as one puntlander said make my day”.
B)agian if denying & lying history That will not come to good conclusion,everyone in This part of africa knows british conquer north somalia including what you call now s/land,it’s well decumented people who fought againest british & Those who collaborate.
C)people in These region sool-sanag-ceyn,They don’t want any poison or servant ideas,They have enough manpower & educated people to build Their own regions,as great author said”The real resource is human resource”.
Sometimes to have a stable life & education, good system you need to fight for it This is what These areas are doing not distruction as you mention may be it’s in your mind,by The way your contradicting your self saying majority citizen in This areas are distructionist & 21th century majority dictates how misleading is This.
The great Abdulah hassan he was educated & study in yemen,as i appointed They call him mad muller for one reason he opposed Them.you negotiated someone who respects your rights & culture The british did not Those days & great warrior abdulah hassan never take any carabage from Them like you guys did he was tall proud man & never wanted to be servant to anyone,it’s not whether you loss or not it’s where you stand At least The great warrior abdulah hasan he’s in british archives histoty & respect him in full.
Again This shows how servant mentallity you guys are comparing nazi germany with This great man defending his own people The best way he can & nazis who wanted to conquare rest of The world.
MY HIS SOIL REST IN PEACE THE GREAT WARRIOR ABDULAH HASSAN.
Karash,
As I said the Mad Muller his group lost the war to the Brits. The Dawashshes were literally wiped out entirely up to now we don't even know what happened to the Mad Muller or how he was killed. sometime if you overlook the risks in your actions you could be dead right. It means you could be right but it can cost your life too..
Let's say he was fighting for justice but he cut his life short by grossly underestimating his opponent. some people would categorized that M.A. Hassan led a suicidal mission when he went against Brits, because at the end it resulted him an unnecessary death..
A bunch of less educated tribal-men than M.A. Hassan had actually made Brits to adhere a contractual agreement before Britain established it's colonization in Somaliland in 1880s,
it's in the history books you can Google should you interested.
The moral of the story is, if the elders showed the Brits an aggression towards them, it wouldn't change a thing, Brits would have their way as planned anyway.
My point is that a negotiations offer better results over outright conformation.
Just a word of advice, please start to learn how to negotiate with a pen and book instead of bullets.. Aggression and hostility don't bring peace they leave bad memories behind when it all said and done…
Osman Qaal
@secessionist doomed club.
It seem’s to me your type of persons who always follow orders Their masters whether it’s right or wrong They called ” Mr yes sir”. it’s not about loosing The war wipping out or any Thing like That it’s where what you stand in life & value.
If you want to know how The great warrior abdulah hassan was killed,he was killed british air raid in taleex he was The first african freedom fighter killed air raid,Acualy Those tribel-men adhere contract agreement with The british 1880 were categorise & consider as a triaters great warrior his forces.
Agression with The right measure in The right direction will make you more respected & give you back your rights,negotiation workers when The two party are willing real negotiation,my worth of advice to you is as a human being it’s in our DNA to be little bit aggro so always consider using aggretiation & negotiation side by side. no nation or state ever in history won Their independent only negotiation,i know exactly where your coming from put i am afraid These regions wants to go Their own direction it’s bullet train & you don’t want stand front of This train.
MAY REST IN PEACE HIS SOIL THE GREAT WARRIOR ABDULAH HASSAN.
Absolutely right suggestions, hope you all aware that Somaliland is saperate from Somalia and will be. such these open ideas about the Somaliland's independence will increase that the international community will take a bold actions about our independece.
Long life Somalililand…………
am from North somalia and i dont recognise such a thing as somaliland.. how can world recognise u then.. be reasonable..
maryan tell that to somebody who cares!
@maryan.
Ignore Gobaad she’s little bit confuse & wabaling.
@Allemagan,
Here we go again: you can't help building huts(arguments) from match sticks (feeble premises).
You can't help, because you WILL never be able to put together a convincing argument, based on solid
premises, against Somaliland's case.
Let me explain. You know very well that Somaliland is not a part of Somalia; in fact, Somaliland is, like Somalia, one of the Five Somali territories that constitute the so-called "Greater Somalia". There is another fact that you won't be able to deny: in 1960 Somaliland and Somalia came together to form the now defunct Somali Republic, in the hope that the other three territories would follow suite and join the "Republic". There is another historic fact you and your ilk don't want to hear: Somaliland was the first out of the Five Somali Territories to gain its independence, and established as a nation state on 26th June 1960 – in other words, Somaliland pre-dates, as a nation state, both Somalia and the now-defunct Somali Republic. Furthermore, it is a well documented fact that the Somaliland people immediately
realized that they had made a terrible mistake by hastily going into "union" with Somalia and rejected the "union" constitution when it was put to a national referendum in 1961. I challenge you to contest that the people of Somaliland voted against the "union" constitution. More than anything else, it this result which sends shivers down your spine because you understand its implications very well, one of which is that, under international law, the Somali Republic (sic) was a de facto union, not de jure.
When that the de facto Republic collapsed in 1991, the Somaliland people reverted back to what they were before and re-established their state, Somaliland – under international law, to the best of my knowledge, no one questions the legality of this decision.
Since then, the Somaliland people have moved on and rebuilt their country. The functioning democracy that they have established in their country is a testament to their political maturity, commitment to human liberty and peace and development.
Inevitably, it is not unexpected that there are some (albeit a minority) Somalilanders that are vehemently against the re-establishment of the Somaliland state. They claim, like you, to firmly believe in the "Greater Somalia" dogma and therefore to them the idea of Somaliland is an anathema. Rather ironically, for some absolutely unfathomable reasons to me, Djibouti, which was the first to abandon the "Greater Somalia" doctrine, is spared your "wrath". I was wondering if you, Mr Allemagan, can enlighten me/us on this discrepancy on your part.
In any case, Somaliland is a democratic country and so you and your friends have the platform to air your views as long as you remain within the bounds of the law of the state.
To sum up, the law of the jungle does not apply in Somaliland; instead, democracy and the ballot box do. Hence, the essence of your premises is nothing but hogwash.
@ Hargeisawi-In-London
Well said, afgaga caano geel o xoor leh lagu qabay.
They are in denial and they hide behind falsehood and a greater Somalia dream to cover their evil hatred. There will never be re-union ever again and Somaliland is here to stay. So Allemagan and his ilk can either embrace the democracy and beam of light in a dark ocean or wail forever.
you have already be sentenced to go to prison, so you are now a fugitive on the run.
@amal,
"….afgaga caano geel o xoor leh lagu qabay".
Wow! I am impressed :-)! Bilaayoon dabada ka dhacaa?
lol
:D
Well done and well said Hargeisawi, Walaweyn have to give up their political bullying and "phantom-limb" mentality, the reality on ground and move on.
… see the reality on the gound and move on, that is.
Hargeisawi-In-London,
Where were you when sillanyo was selecting the Somaliland reps for talks between the 2 nations?
If future talks come to light drop them a line…you sound an expert on the matter…well done!
Osman Qaal
@Gobad and Osman5,
In my opinion, we've got Somalia and anti-Somaliland Somalilanders on the ropes, let's not let up.
Hargeisawi-In-London,
I'd rather prefer offering them short educational sessions like your last one..I'll eventually be clued in.
Osman Qaal
I meant "they'll eventually be clued in"
Osman Qaal
alots u seem to be misusing the great name of dhul-badan-hante u should all know that we dont hate somaliland nor are we forcing u to part of somalia. like we played the key role of getting our indepences from Britian, we faught 20 yrs agaisnt Britian its well written history no one cant deny that ,our Garaad.. Garaad jamac garad jama was the leader of four cabinets who have signed the declaration of the first Independence of Northern Somalia from Britain on 26 June 1960.
plus everyone knows where live in our land .. The western border is Labida, 20km from Buro. The northern border is Jiidale, in Erigavo area. To the east lies Yooada which is near Garowe and on the west is Buhoodle in Ayn region which shares a border with Ethiopia and it amazes me some of u calling us minority when we are the biggest sub-clan in the region… and we see somali-land wax beesha dhexe iska wadwadto and lets face it attacting buuhodle while people in sleep or funding few thugs in lascanod wont benefit either of us… and since 2010 things have changed so many clashes happened i dont why. but elders should sit down and work this out
good point.
O.Q.
Way to go, Hargeisawi!
@the separatists club
I have no interest in camel milk and maybe that is why I can talk about issues objectively. For you to repeat the phrase "may your mouth always have camel milk" proves my previous point; your are fighting over nothing but camels. leave the camel well behind! Looting camels and fighting over camel wells did not lead us to progress and civilization for centuries. If you want to compare our situation today to how things were in Somaliland 60 years ago, read "The Tree of Poverty" by Margaret Laurence. Our folks are still dying of thirst in every dry season as they did when Ms. Lawrence saw them first time 69 years ago.
@Hargeisawi-In-London, you need to answer the questions that I raised in my comment instead of giving me an impossible assignment; your challenge for me to contest that the people of former British-Somaliland voted against any Somali constitution is red herring. It never happened and you know it. Show us the original article of that document if you have it and do not reproduce a piece of recent propaganda written by fanatical separatists. Give us a link of the original document.
Hargeisawi, You talk about five parts of Somalia that were to be united. Can you tell me where does Haud and Reserve area fit in your argument? Who lost Haud to Ethiopia? Wasn't Haud part of British Somaliland? Somalia was liberating your folks and if the dream of greater Somalia is dead, you are the biggest losers. I have no doubt that if Ethiopia takes over Burao tomorrow, you will still be seeking an independent Hargeisa-land instead fighting for what is rightfully ours as Somalis.
PS – Hargeiesawi, you did much better this time in your debate since you did not resort to an outright insulting of ones father (refer to your comment to previous posting). Let us keep our discourse civil and free of personal attacks.
@Allegaman.
Your right.
kkk not interest camel milk This is good point probably That’s why Their brain not functioning up to standard & living in The past 1960′s.mr Allemagan it’s beyond my comprehension urguing These people They locked in past not The future with no proof or have a clue what They talking about,i suggest you better of replying people who are some level as you,becuase your standard of knowledge is high.
cumar, a cheap shot and doen't worth debating!
@Allemagan,
Let me kick off my responses by starting with your following comment: "…..since you did not resort to an outright insulting of ones father (refer to your comment to previous posting)….". I guess you are referring to this expression "Aabahaa w*se, aabaheen cacaayin". Well! This is an expression Somalis use in order to point out logical fallacies in a debate/argument — having explained it to you, perhaps you should go back and re-read my earlier posting.
"….@Hargeisawi-In-London, you need to answer the questions that I raised
in my comment instead of giving me an impossible assignment …"
I have answered all your questions. But perhaps, I should put my answers in BIG LETTERS.
You have raised three questions: "does everyone in northern Somalia want separation? Why is there
a need to divide Somali people? Is there any options to be explored other than division of the country?".
To the first question, the answer is quite simple. Northern Somalia is Majertania, so you have to ask the people of Majertania whether or not they wish to secede from their motherland, Somalia — in other words, your question is pretty irrelevant as far as Somaliland is concerned. As for your second question, if you are talking to Omer Gelle, Ahmed Mohamoud (Silanyo), Sh. Sharif, the Somali folks in Ethiopia and Kenya, you have a point there. Otherwise, I can't see a logical reason for you to zoom in and single out Somaliland and its people. Finally, to your last question, you need to spell out first which Somalia are we talking about – Somalia that consists of Italian Somaliland, British Somaliland, French Somaliland, Ogaden and NFD; or something else?
"…..your challenge for me to contest that the people of former British-Somaliland
voted against any Somali constitution is red herring. It never happened and you know it.
Show us the original article of that document if you have it and do not reproduce a
piece of recent propaganda written by fanatical separatists. Give us a link of the
original document."
Here they come. Check out Touval, S., 1963, "Somali Nationalism". Havrad University Press. And how about, Drysdale, J., 1994, "What ever Happened to Somalia". Haan Associates: London. Read them and weep — the list goes on, but have a look at these data, then we can talk. (Incidentally I have also got a copy of the table of figures officially issued by the commission overseeing the referendum, but I am afraid it is written in Italian.)
"……Can you tell me where does Haud and Reserve area fit in your argument?…."
Once again the answer is quite simple and straightforward, they fit where NFD and Ogaden do.
@Hargeisawi-In-London
Answers like "Haud and Reserve Area fit where NFD and Ogade do", is neither simple nor straightforward. I think that sometimes it is better not to reply to a question in a debate if you don't have or you want to ignore the necessary information. Similarly, a document is written in Italian language won't fly and will not enable you to walk away from your challenge. Let us see the document. It is obvious that you are throwing around tall stories and baseless claims to support your position. That is pathetic.
Hargeisawi, it is also shameful that you try to justtify your uncalled for insults by creating a new class of Somali language usage. It is laughable that you claim the expression you used in your previous comment as something that can be used by mature Somali person in a debate or under any other circumstance. Own up to your mistake Hargeisawi. You could simply abologize for lowering yourself to that level and move on.
@Cumber
Thanks borther. Camel milk never appealed to me frothy or otherwise. I can not stand camels because they increase the footprint of the desert wherever they may go. Filthy spitting beasts!
@Allemagan,
Calm down and please mind our language, matey — by the look of it, you are feeling the heat. You have asked for solid references. I have provided them, two widely read books. The onus is now on you, my friend.
BTW I forgot to say,see: Drysdale's, p.134 and Touval's, p.120-121".
"please mind our language" should read "please mind your language"
Hargeisawi, well done. I was under the impression that this guy was from the south. But from his last comment I can sense that he is either from Majeertenia or damn well from Somaliland and yet he is denying the existence of Somaliland instead of being part of a nation building. He is campaigning to be part of a clan or part of that illusive hopes of Somali weyne which will never be materialized. Even their highly educated are not any better than their illiterate. How sad is that!
@Gobaad,
Gobaad wuxuu fahmay in Websitekan ay soo boodqaan dad badan oo Somali ahayn iyo dhalinyaro reer Somaliland ah qurabahase ku koray oo laga yaabo inanay arimaha qaarkood u kala cadayn. Markaas wuxu isleeyahay qolooyinkaas majaro habaabi. Se, Insha Alla, wuu iska tagidoonaa aakhirka marka hilfaha loo laabo.
@ Hargeysaawi
Sawka ninku haftay, ruuxa gala badweyn isagoon dabaal baran baad kaga dhitay.
@Hargeisawi-In-London
This is the page you referred to http://bit.ly/IUMcPQ. Where does it say anything about that Somaliland (sic) voted on constitution? Thanks to Google. Nowadays no one can point to references that do not exist and get away with it. Does this proof that you are basing your argument on red herring Hargeisawi-In-London? You could do better.
@Allemagan.
Wow This is The peace of info i was looking.
Thank’s
@Allemagan,
Did I cite this webpage? No, I did not. I repeat, you asked for references — I provided them, I even gave you the page numbers. You are NOT looking for a needle in a haystack; so please stop beating around the bush, my friend.
@Hargeisawi-In-London
Citing a page and you need help? there is an app for that – enlighten yourself about how to deal with reference material before you get caught with your pants down. The information you submitted is on this link http://bit.ly/IUMcPQ and you know it. Your claim does not hold water and can not stand for serious scrutiny. Of course I have to beat around the bush if you are not forthcoming with anything that supports your claim that the people of former British Somaliland voted against any Somali constitution.
@Allemagan,
"enlighten yourself about how to deal with reference material before you get caught with your pants down …………Of course I have to beat around the bush if you are not forthcoming with anything that supports your claim "
I am lost. What do you call these:
Touval, S., 1963, "Somali Nationalism". Havrad University Press; Drysdale, J., 1994, "What ever Happened to Somalia". Haan Associates: London.?
How many times do I have to repeat myself? Just get the two books (or one of them), then we can talk.
copy cut letter….. loool
Ali, did you even try to understand what he is talking about? I wonder!